Power to the People

Which setting should we edit first? The Hull, Slide or Speed?

Poll ended at Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:14 pm

Hull
0
No votes
Slide
4
36%
Speed
7
64%
 
Total votes: 11

User avatar
=(V)=Mar
Colonel
Posts: 2602
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=Mar »

=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:14 am
=(V)=Mar wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:33 pm
Cross_Eyed_Noob wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:45 am
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:23 am
Cross_Eyed_Noob wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:20 am A hitbox that is buggy as fuck with zp103 unfortunately

something like 40% of shots that actually connect and kill, it sux :/
I really don't think it was a zp problem i think it was a pilot position problem. if you vote the hof jet on column 4 i bet every IG shot lights that jet up

It was the hof jet that reminded me of that problem exactely, we played it yesterday and like i said, many shots were not registring at all.

Here is the topic about hull from a few years ago and how it was a big fail to implement, even Mar said it was not really working out as intended:

forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2428
^ He is right.
ZP is the problem, try playing RX without ZP and you will see hull works.
It's just not worth to play without ZP if someone has 100+ ping, hence why I tried to make a custom ZP but was based on 2nd version (ZP201 or something like that) and naliweapons zp since ZP103 source code is not available.

My version had lots of problems, so we had to rollback to 103 version.
I remember we tried all ZP mods (including LCWeapons) none of them worked as good as ZP103.
i still don't believe its zp as the problem. I strongly believe its a pilot position + jet design change + hull size because i can promise you no shots bounce on the old rx3F jets with zp on
I remember testing lots of RXs and all have the bounce problem with zp103. Even SLV.
Of course when I did these tests, I added lag to my UT to simulate an online match.

I do notice that those with slower velocity had less bounce shots, but it still had.
User avatar
=(V)=Mar
Colonel
Posts: 2602
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=Mar »

I think you guys will understand more like this:

How zp works is in theory like this.
When you shoot a zp weapon it does 2 things.
1. It displays the laser beam/shot decals instantly (So you feel it instantly)
2. It sends the server your shot information.
2.1 If you shot a player it will send the player object/coordinates/vectors
2.2 If you shot a non player it will send the vectors and calculate the straight line you shot and damage the first thing it founds (zp103 got some errors I believe it doesn't register some objects, hence why on BT is not encouraged).

When shooting a player it calculates from the point you shot and where the player you shot current is. If that exceeds a certain margin of error, it skips the shot else it will register the shot.
After registering the shot, it will draw the laser/shot decals to other players except you. (So the beam you see is not what the other players see, most of the time is the same but people with lag will defer some).

Also in real case scenarios you need to add latency (ping) to the equation, if you shoot a jet but the server received your request 100ms later and since jet is moving so fast is no longer on the line you shot initially ZP will skip your shot or hit something else. This is the "bounce" we see, our UT client draw the laser that it hit the jet but in reality server saw that line at a different time.

The way it calculates the shot of the player is better since it adds a margin of error to it. Thats why works better with just people, this ZP didnt take into considerations that we will be shootings missiles and jets at high speed lol.

PS: I am doing everything from memory, some things may be wrong.
User avatar
Cross_Eyed_Noob
V.I.P.
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:21 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by Cross_Eyed_Noob »

And that's why you let a coder who knows what he's talking about do the explanations :^)

God bless your soul Mar <3
User avatar
=(V)=RocketJedi
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 11559
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: New York
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=RocketJedi »

=(V)=Mar wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:27 pm I think you guys will understand more like this:

How zp works is in theory like this.
When you shoot a zp weapon it does 2 things.
1. It displays the laser beam/shot decals instantly (So you feel it instantly)
2. It sends the server your shot information.
2.1 If you shot a player it will send the player object/coordinates/vectors
2.2 If you shot a non player it will send the vectors and calculate the straight line you shot and damage the first thing it founds (zp103 got some errors I believe it doesn't register some objects, hence why on BT is not encouraged).

When shooting a player it calculates from the point you shot and where the player you shot current is. If that exceeds a certain margin of error, it skips the shot else it will register the shot.
After registering the shot, it will draw the laser/shot decals to other players except you. (So the beam you see is not what the other players see, most of the time is the same but people with lag will defer some).

Also in real case scenarios you need to add latency (ping) to the equation, if you shoot a jet but the server received your request 100ms later and since jet is moving so fast is no longer on the line you shot initially ZP will skip your shot or hit something else. This is the "bounce" we see, our UT client draw the laser that it hit the jet but in reality server saw that line at a different time.

The way it calculates the shot of the player is better since it adds a margin of error to it. Thats why works better with just people, this ZP didnt take into considerations that we will be shootings missiles and jets at high speed lol.

PS: I am doing everything from memory, some things may be wrong.
Thank you for this great explanation :) . but i stand by my theory about player position + hull, equals higher percentage of hitting the jet and / or player because everything is more "square" meaning a shot from any direction is pretty much gonna hit the player within the hull I'm speaking from what i also remember , but like u I may be a little short on exact memory haha I attached this pic to explain my understanding.. im no developer, but i consider my self an expert tester

bigger circle is the jet hull. the smaller circle is the player hitbox ( IMO ) even though right now the jets have zero hull so just the player hitbox

the things you think of when high af
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Image

Image

=(V)=BloodyRabbit wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:13 pm That was EPIC! I just creamed all over my panties!!!
User avatar
=(V)=Mar
Colonel
Posts: 2602
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=Mar »

=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:49 pm Thank you for this great explanation :) . but i stand by my theory about player position + hull, equals higher percentage of hitting the jet and / or player because everything is more "square" meaning a shot from any direction is pretty much gonna hit the player within the hull I'm speaking from what i also remember , but like u I may be a little short on exact memory haha I attached this pic to explain my understanding.. im no developer, but i consider my self an expert tester

bigger circle is the jet hull. the smaller circle is the player hitbox ( IMO ) even though right now the jets have zero hull so just the player hitbox

the things you think of when high af
Yes, you are correct, the pilot position does affect. (I never said it didnt or did I? Sorry if I did)
Having hull on middle will be the best, but we tried in one version and got some very strange errors when people used it on server.
Most have been something wrong with how I did it i believe.

But even on the center we will still get the bounce effect of ZP. (A little less than currently)

PS: The image is correct for RX3F, for RX8 will be a little more inside the hull. (Dont remember much for this, I will need to check to confirm)

The best fix will be if could get a good ZP working. :'c
=(V)=BloodyRabbit
Co-Leader
Posts: 2242
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:59 pm
Location: Narnia
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=BloodyRabbit »

=(V)=CandyMan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:12 pm We have 12 days left and only 8 votes, we got to pull people in from the server to vote on this.. we have to convince them to cast their votes.. we need more opinions. There's more then just 8 people who play on the servers (and this is what I meant), I know it's still early but I doubt we'll get near 20 votes by the time this closes. (I hope we do and I hope I'm wrong)
Tag @everyone
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:16 am WTF I shot this twat-a-potamus and he didn't die!
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:01 am wtf lag is that!
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:31 am I cant believe i have to waste my time on this
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:44 pm During the Cold War, the U.S. considered airdropping enormous condoms labeled "Medium" on the Soviets
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 am A free picture of DEEZ NUTZ
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 pm bahaha this is great news
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:33 pm how about we mute the entire server then all you can do is play or rage quit.
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 am FML im old and chics don't check me out anymore
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:49 pm BloodyRabbit is the sexiest man alive!! (Rubs nipples)

Oh RJ, the things you say. This is worth the super long sig :laugh :vmrocks

Image
User avatar
Cross_Eyed_Noob
V.I.P.
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:21 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by Cross_Eyed_Noob »

=(V)=BloodyRabbit wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:00 pm
=(V)=CandyMan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:12 pm We have 12 days left and only 8 votes, we got to pull people in from the server to vote on this.. we have to convince them to cast their votes.. we need more opinions. There's more then just 8 people who play on the servers (and this is what I meant), I know it's still early but I doubt we'll get near 20 votes by the time this closes. (I hope we do and I hope I'm wrong)
Tag @everyone
+1

Also, tell other moderators of server to spam some message at the start of the game to let ppl over at server know too
User avatar
=(V)=CandyMan
Forums Master
Posts: 7026
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:19 pm
Location: The Throne of VM
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=CandyMan »

=(V)=BloodyRabbit wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:00 pm
=(V)=CandyMan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:12 pm We have 12 days left and only 8 votes, we got to pull people in from the server to vote on this.. we have to convince them to cast their votes.. we need more opinions. There's more then just 8 people who play on the servers (and this is what I meant), I know it's still early but I doubt we'll get near 20 votes by the time this closes. (I hope we do and I hope I'm wrong)
Tag @everyone
Done. But.. you do know, Bloody, I am not the only admin who can do that around here ;)

EDIT: Honestly, I like being the bad guy on discord, so when people get pissed, I'd rather them get mad at me for blowing up their discord, hehe.
Image
Co-Leader of the Vulpine Mission branch(es) in War Thunder and Call of Duty.
My tags are: =VM19=Coty2255 and |VM|TH3 J0K3R

More games and divisions are coming soon...

User avatar
=(V)=RocketJedi
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 11559
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: New York
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=RocketJedi »

=(V)=Mar wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:31 pm
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:49 pm Thank you for this great explanation :) . but i stand by my theory about player position + hull, equals higher percentage of hitting the jet and / or player because everything is more "square" meaning a shot from any direction is pretty much gonna hit the player within the hull I'm speaking from what i also remember , but like u I may be a little short on exact memory haha I attached this pic to explain my understanding.. im no developer, but i consider my self an expert tester

bigger circle is the jet hull. the smaller circle is the player hitbox ( IMO ) even though right now the jets have zero hull so just the player hitbox

the things you think of when high af
Yes, you are correct, the pilot position does affect. (I never said it didnt or did I? Sorry if I did)
Having hull on middle will be the best, but we tried in one version and got some very strange errors when people used it on server.
Most have been something wrong with how I did it i believe.

But even on the center we will still get the bounce effect of ZP. (A little less than currently)

PS: The image is correct for RX3F, for RX8 will be a little more inside the hull. (Dont remember much for this, I will need to check to confirm)

The best fix will be if could get a good ZP working. :'c
Thanks Mar :) don't worry about it its too late in the game to reinvent the wheel. you have done more for RX than anyone i know and the founders would be proud
Image

Image

=(V)=BloodyRabbit wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:13 pm That was EPIC! I just creamed all over my panties!!!
User avatar
Nyx
Forums Master
Posts: 522
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:46 pm

Re: Power to the People

Post by Nyx »

This is why I thought this rx had no hitbox. Because I remembered that you were not supposed to shoot rockets in front of you or it would explode. But I guess this version has smaller hitbox than the older versions.
Image
=(V)=BloodyRabbit
Co-Leader
Posts: 2242
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2016 7:59 pm
Location: Narnia
Has thanked: 22 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=BloodyRabbit »

=(V)=CandyMan wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:41 am
=(V)=BloodyRabbit wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:00 pm
=(V)=CandyMan wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:12 pm We have 12 days left and only 8 votes, we got to pull people in from the server to vote on this.. we have to convince them to cast their votes.. we need more opinions. There's more then just 8 people who play on the servers (and this is what I meant), I know it's still early but I doubt we'll get near 20 votes by the time this closes. (I hope we do and I hope I'm wrong)
Tag @everyone
Done. But.. you do know, Bloody, I am not the only admin who can do that around here ;)

EDIT: Honestly, I like being the bad guy on discord, so when people get pissed, I'd rather them get mad at me for blowing up their discord, hehe.
Yeah, thought maybe you didnt want to tag everyone wasn't sure so I left it alone. I'll tag everyone! See if I care!! Lol

If we do it sparsely with info that means something to people we shouldn't get many complaints if any. Or I'll unleash the hounds!

I'll do it when I play @Cross_Eyed_Noob and server message it.
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:16 am WTF I shot this twat-a-potamus and he didn't die!
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:01 am wtf lag is that!
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:31 am I cant believe i have to waste my time on this
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:44 pm During the Cold War, the U.S. considered airdropping enormous condoms labeled "Medium" on the Soviets
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:36 am A free picture of DEEZ NUTZ
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:12 pm bahaha this is great news
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:33 pm how about we mute the entire server then all you can do is play or rage quit.
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:02 am FML im old and chics don't check me out anymore
=(V)=RocketJedi wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:49 pm BloodyRabbit is the sexiest man alive!! (Rubs nipples)

Oh RJ, the things you say. This is worth the super long sig :laugh :vmrocks

Image
User avatar
=(V)=CandyMan
Forums Master
Posts: 7026
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:19 pm
Location: The Throne of VM
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=CandyMan »

Poll is set to close at 11:14 PM ET/8:14 PM PT.

As of right now, it's 5 for speed and 4 with slide. Changes will take the day after (9/30) following closure of the vote.
Image
Co-Leader of the Vulpine Mission branch(es) in War Thunder and Call of Duty.
My tags are: =VM19=Coty2255 and |VM|TH3 J0K3R

More games and divisions are coming soon...

User avatar
Cross_Eyed_Noob
V.I.P.
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:21 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Power to the People

Post by Cross_Eyed_Noob »

Hey, you might get to have the slow speed again RJ :P

Time to come out of retirement again LOL
User avatar
=(V)=CandyMan
Forums Master
Posts: 7026
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:19 pm
Location: The Throne of VM
Been thanked: 3 times
Contact:

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=CandyMan »

Cross_Eyed_Noob wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:37 am Hey, you might get to have the slow speed again RJ :P

Time to come out of retirement again LOL
No one "retires", just a word people use to get attention. lol

Just like when people say "we not playing on your servers anymore".. shit, if I had a penny for every time someone said that..

Say you taking a UT vacation, it's more believable. Or better yet, steal Ronda Rousey's term, impregnation vacation, lmao.
Image
Co-Leader of the Vulpine Mission branch(es) in War Thunder and Call of Duty.
My tags are: =VM19=Coty2255 and |VM|TH3 J0K3R

More games and divisions are coming soon...

User avatar
=(V)=RocketJedi
Lieutenant Colonel
Posts: 11559
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:41 pm
Location: New York
Has thanked: 72 times
Been thanked: 17 times
Contact:

Re: Power to the People

Post by =(V)=RocketJedi »

=(V)=CandyMan wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:40 am
Cross_Eyed_Noob wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:37 am Hey, you might get to have the slow speed again RJ :P

Time to come out of retirement again LOL
No one "retires", just a word people use to get attention. lol

Just like when people say "we not playing on your servers anymore".. shit, if I had a penny for every time someone said that..

Say you taking a UT vacation, it's more believable. Or better yet, steal Ronda Rousey's term, impregnation vacation, lmao.
accept i actually stopped playing like i said i would lol
Image

Image

=(V)=BloodyRabbit wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:13 pm That was EPIC! I just creamed all over my panties!!!
Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”